I gotta get something off my chest. And let me say from the start, my goal is not to make enemies or ruffle feathers…though I realize it’ll probably happen anyway. But enough is enough. And now I feel I need to publicly come out and say what I know most of us are already feeling and thinking.
Please watch my “Open Letter” to all the gurus we’ve ever loved before…I think I’m speaking for all of us. And then I’d really appreciate hearing your thoughts in the comments below afterward…
So what do you think? Strike any nerves with you too? Am I off base at all here? Please tell me how you feel below…I’d really like to know. And understand that my goal here is not to stir up negativity, but to spur us all in a more positive direction with all this. So please be bot totally honest and polite…thanks…
P.S. – Hey, if this resonates with you, then please share it all over Facebook and Twitter — and even embed it on your own website. Help us get it out there!
I’m glad someone finally said something about this nonsense.
Will The People Who Agree With JP say AMEN…
JP I couldn’t have said it any better myself. Since I started diving into educating myself on real estate investing about 5 months ago I have truly realized what a lot of “guru’s” are all about. I completely agree that there are those select individuals that I can trust with my hard earned money and especially my TIME! Because anyone knows that they all offer a money back guarantee (now how long it actually takes to get that money back for a piss poor product) is a totally different story. But what I truly value is my time. When I stay up late at night or take time out of my life (usually at least once a day) to watch webinar after webinar. It absolutely boils my blood to watch nothing but a sales pitch. Now I understand you have a product (or 80) to offer me. But what happened to content? It seems like the only way you can get that anymore is to actually order the slickly priced $997 product or to go to a bootcamp or live training event. Which even then is about 60/40 sales pitch vs. content. I am just frustrated and tired of all this crap. I know a lot of people out there are in the same boat and i THANK YOU JP for standing up and saying what everyone is thinking. Keep it up and good luck to you!
Thanks for this, JP. Well said. I’ve been exposed to this nonsense too many times.
My particular pet peeve is the presenters at events who work the audience into a lather about their products, having them run to the back/front of the room because of stated/implied time limits or availabilities or freebies. It just feels wrong, as if they are preying on the audience’s fears about missing the next shiny object and the one thing that will make them millions without having to do anything. Imagine. People are jumping up all over the room like trained monkeys. Then they get to stand around the back table after the presentation while the presenter jumps up on that table and continues to promote said shiny object. It’s chaos and degrading.
I was watching a boot camp yesterday where an invited speaker had audience members standing around his feet waiting for some handout, just standing there uncomfortably,while he said, “but before I do this . . . blahblahblah.” It was painful to watch.
Maybe it’s just me.
Why are you pulling punches? Why not name names, or initials at least? You can Google any guru along with the word “scam” and find people unhappy about being taken. Many are spurious claims, from people who thought this would really be as easy as they were led to believe. You too can Google “guru ratings”, “real estate” and see some ratings, esp. John Reed’s (which are dated and reflect his curious bias, but are still useful).
I’ve been to–and paid for–some boot camps, and bought a few guru programs. Pretty much every guru–even the ones in prison–have something useful and insightful to say. Like many, this is a business rife with hucksters, but even the most strident still offer some kernels of wisdom amidst the hyperbole and hard sell. And if you really think you need a guru’s program, look for it on Ebay first, you might save a bundle and if it’s mediocre, your outlay won’t sting so much.
Thank you! I am sick of email touting this “latest and greatest that is THE solution.” Integrity – let’s get back to it
Amen JP, thanks for saying what so many of us are thinking.
What you say sounds all well and good, jp, and personally, I agree with it 1000%.
In the spirit of this video, what would your opinion of a “GURU” who has said on many occasions, and I quote, “Every year a new flock of pigeons flies over. I just raise my shotgun and hit more than I need.”
What would you think of a GURU who thought like that? Exactly.
So why does this very GURU’s face stare at me from the homepage of your new website?
Every new real estate investor needs to watch this very informitive video… thanks JP…
P.S. I appreciate that you give and ask for nothing in return. I meant to say that before.
AMEN
JP, your challenge showed up while I’m in the middle of unsubscibing from 9 out of 10 gurus who pitch to me because they are a waste of time and money. After 18 months learning the hard way, it is now a principle of my business to eliminate those distractions. Do you really think these egomaniacs will listen when we tell them they are a waste of time, not worth it, and a major distraction from real work?
….Good Stuff JP….you and I have had discussions about this kinda stuff specifically one of the most hyped launches this decade….without even speaking to the merits of a particular course or product, I think it does a disservice to the “seller” when every “guru” is pushing a product as ‘this month’s greatest thing since sliced MLS access’….very few promoters will honestly give the disclaimer that you do, i.e. “this may not be for you..” and why…..if I’m honest, when I see a product promoted like this, I ignore it completely….but that’s just me…
Can there be a list compiled of the lying, money grabbing “gurus” that market products vs. providing substantive content?? Newbies should have the knowledge of who to avoid giving their hard earned dollars to. We should know who actually does deals, offer real up-to-date content. The lying and bombardment of internet marketers who feign themselves as “commercial real estate experts”, dealmakers, or any kind of expert, etc. has to cease.
JP for so many of these Self Proclaimed “Gurus” – its far better to learn from individuals who are actually in the “Trenches” DOING the business rather than constantly promoting informational products or Teaching it….
There is a old platitude which goes something like this;
“Those that truly do…DO…. Those that can’t TEACH…”
Michael Morrongiello
Guru or Shill -whom has earned which? With the advent of the internet, they have even side-stepped our very important local real estate investment groups that are focused on one-to-one education, guidance, and even mentorships (at hardly any cost). This is an article I wrote over a year ago where the national shill is still out there with a paid mentor educator still out there while this investment I refer still sits half-finished and well underwater. http://www.charlottereblog.com/paying-for-a-real-estate-education/
Do not get me wrong, there are some very good real estate educators. It is us as individuals who should decide whom is the guru, not that educator (or shill). Let’s get the focus on our local real estate associations where we can help our local investors, protect them from the shills, and bring in a national educators whom has earned thier strips.
The pounding we get with all these programs is incredible; unfortunately, most of us reading or posting are educated. It is the uneducated that are preyed upon being stealthy fed the b.s. if you just buy this or that, or step two, three, etc., etc.
It seems to me that every aspect of the real estate business is overflowing with with Guru’s selling horse manure diquised as Hope! It is so disheartening when I see a new Realtor (yes, I’m a Realtor) spending the money they’ve borrowed from Uncle George to invest in a system that says it’ll help them sell 100 homes in their first year. I watch as they struggle and then run out of money and enthusiasm and quit the business. So many over my 25+ years selling real estate. It makes me wonder if some of these so called guru’s have a heart. It just makes our business seem heartless. I say if you’ve got the greatest system on the planet, you must tell the potential buyer that what coes along with that system is usually lot of hard work and patience. Actually, if you’re new to this business, whether an investor or Realtor, I just revealed to you the key to success. Did you catch it? Hard Work and Patience. Also, never forget, we’re not in the Real Estate business. We’re in the People Business. The property is secondary. That’s my 2 cents!
Bravo J.P. I’ve waisted too much time and money with the flavor of the month. Unfortunately it’s only left me deeper in debt. I believe if you pocess valuable information that actually works in the Real Estate investing industry, and your making money using it why not pay it forward. Odds are that someone other that yourself taught it to you to use. Very few pioneers exist, and they’re so filthy rich they don’t need to sell anything to you ! Regards Dale @ Midwest Home Investors – proudly servicing Chicagolans area !
J.P. I agree with the video. My eyes were opened one day when following a link on one of the ten or twenty emails I used to get everyday. Accidentally the guru (false prophet) put the link to the behind the scene launch site. You know the one that shows which guru gets the free trip to Jamaica for the most opt ins.
SICK.
No where on the page I landed did it say how authentic the information would be or how much value it was really going to bring to us the investors. The site just went on and on about how good the marketing was, which professional copyrighter had been hired, how much you they get paid per opt in, ETC. That’s when it hit me. To them I am just an opt in; a number; an email address. It’s all about how much they can make off of us. It seems to have nothing to do with providing good information. I would encourage people reading this to search Google for the back door pages where the gurus see who’s ahead in the opt in race. It will flat out make you mad.
Hey listen, I have no problem paying for an education when I get value. No problem at all, but you have to earn my trust first.
J.P. you are 1 of 3 gurus that I still get email from. You always provide value and I really appreciate it.
I think the “False Prophet’s” have been at this for too long and it is time to start thinning the herd.
JP,
I am not sure how I ended up on your mailing list, however, as someone who is out on the circuit and love the coaching and walking the talk want to say “Thank You” . You have said something that I know myself and several well known, “Gurus” talk about all the time. We do want to over deliver, we strive to be ethical and we certianly practice what we preach. Yes , there are some dishonest people out there and we all know who they are. But it is by listening to people like yourself, who we are watching come into the industry may I say; Thank you and very well put. We are always glad and want to know how our students feel. I believe this business is about friendship and an honest and ethical way to help others. However, it is always good to hear it again from people such as your self.
Here is to your Success!
Mel Feller
Good words, Doug. And about product launches, I I don’t have a problem with the concept itself really, or the fact that they offer incentives/prizes for top promoters – it’s just the way it’s often practiced that conveys (as you put it) that people are “numbers” or “opt-ins”, etc. You’ve probably noticed I’ve promoted in a few product launches here and there, though certainly not all of them, and my first filter is ALWAYS whether or not I think whatever it is will be of authentic value to you guys. I always say exactly what I know and feel, nothing more and nothing less.
Honestly I get just as tired of the tsunami of emails as anyone. When I’m involved, I try not to add to the inbox “noise” but to still provide some kind of opinion or insight – whatever I can – to the conversation people are already having in their minds.
And you’re spot on – the emphasis of anyone who promotes should never be on the money, prizes or bragging rights first and foremost. While there’s nothing innately wrong with any of those things, you consider FIRST AND FOREMOST what real value the product or service at hand has for your subscribers/readers/customers.
Anyway that’s my story and I’m sticking to it! 😉
Thanks for commenting,
…jp
Thanks, Jeremiah. Like you, I don’t mind being offered a product or service that may be useful, and I don’t even mind skilled salesmanship in the process. I don’t want to add to the other sides noisy complaining that “don’t try and sell me stuff!”. All I say (and I know we all agree) is to please treat me with respect in the process, and don’t make a sales pitch at every possible opportunity. “Move the free line” up and give more…not all of it…but more… Offer a healthy mixture of straight content and content mixed with sales offers…and I’m your loyal fan. 🙂
Thanks for commenting!
…jp
Thank you, Mel, for taking the time to watch my “letter” and for commenting. It’s so encouraging to know your committed to keeping your finger on the pulse of your students. 🙂
Great points, Jim. I don’t mind paying for the benefit of someone else’s hard work, experience and expertise. If I can pay a grand to wrap my mind around a proven (fill in the blank here) and actually apply what I learn, then I’ll make my grand back easy in just shortening my learning curve. No problems there. But unfortunately the Easy Button has become too many salesman’s best friend, and to the detriment of a reality based perspective.
The fact is, as you said, even if someone’s system cuts your learning curve and boosts you forward, reality is you’ll still have a to bring a good bit of hard work, patience, focus, determination, etc. to the table. Well put.
JP, I could’nt have wrote the letter better myself, Thanks for sharing my same thought’s, Job well done.
Thanks for commenting, Michael. I gotta be honest…I don’t agree with the “Those that truly do…DO…. Those that can’t TEACH…” mantra. I’m sure it’s true sometimes. But I also have too many good personal friends who I know do both…and they do both well.
I’m staying away from naming names for the most part in this post, but I’ll tell you straight up two guys who royally disprove that mantra are Steve Cook and Shaun McCloskey. They’re definitely not the only ones, but if you’ve been around here for any amount of time then you know already they’re close friends, so I’ll pick on them. 🙂
Steve’s one of the most respected names in the industry…he practices what he preaches, but he’s also a teacher. He has bootcamps from time to time, sells courses, etc. Same with Shaun…he’s doing a 4-day short sale bootcamp as I type this in fact, and I helped him promote it right here on REItips.com.
But both of them do so with supreme integrity and commitment to their students. They’re truly good people who care, love teaching, and love real estate investing. They’ve found a fantastic mix of the two that enables them to do deals and also help change lives. And they make no bones about asking people to pay for the privilege of learning from them.
So while I think I know where you’re coming from above, I caution you not to take a blanket statement like that too literally.
Thanks again for commenting, man!
I’d love that, Taylor. Unfortunately I don’t see how it could work – it’s too subjective. I could have an incredibly positive experience with “Guru A” and rave about him, because his material is well done and I actually applied what I learned. Whereas the next guy could have a random bad experience, or even fail to take action and decide it’s not his fault, and come out with a ravingly negative review. So I’m not sure I see how a public “list” like that would work in the end. Though some people have tried. I don’t trust any of them (good or bad) above my own experience and those of people I already know, like and trust.
Well said, Mike. Truth.
Well John, in the words of (ironically) Ron Legrand, “Some will, some won’t, so what!…Next!” 🙂
You’re welcome. 🙂
Well two things:
1) I don’t know who you’re talking about – I’ve never heard that statement. And honestly I’d like to hear it in context.
2) We all can only judge others based on the information before us at any given time. Whoever you’re referring to may have left a bad taste in your mouth, but not in mine up to now. Likewise I probably know of some I’d never associate with again (EVER) who you might think hung the moon.
You smelling what I’m cooking? 🙂
You’ve shared some extremely keen and insightful remarks there, Thos. “Pretty much every guru–even the ones in prison–have something useful and insightful to say.” It’s true!
One thing I did NOT want to do with this is – and maybe part of the reason I’ve held off on putting it out there because of this – but I did not want to feed into the whining of some people that all gurus are scammers and out to get you — which is NOT true. But at the same time, I want to see more transparency and integrity practices for sure, and the spirit of all this is to call them out in a positive way, and encourage them to MOVE UPWARD.
And name calling would only cause a cat fight. And that’s not my intent here.
My thoughts on this, Ltourvillecnm, are that scarcity and fear of loss aren’t necessarily wrong to employ as effective tactics in good salesmanship — at least not when used with integrity. The problem is they’re often not, and the line is crossed far too many times.
Consider when McDonald’s runs a special promotion “for a limited time” – like the McRib for example (Mmmmmmmm…but anyway). They intentionally create scarcity so increase demand…and trigger fear of loss for those who LIKE or MIGHT LIKE the McRib. They’re still honest about how they promote it (well, then again, it never looks quite as nice as it did in the commercial). But its’ a clever use of planned scarcity that creates sales and still leaves customers feeling like they had a great experience and wanting more. Nothing out of integrity there in my opinion.
Or when a coupon has an expiration date. Or when a print that would normally sell for ten bucks sells for a hundred bucks each because they only printed 300 of them…planned scarcity, fear of loss, etc.
All I’m saying is I don’t blame them for using it as a tactic of salesmanship. I did the same thing with the short sale intensive and KISS Flipping when we were offering them…we limited the number of Charter members intentionally…but it’s all in good salesmanship. SO LONG AS you don’t cross the line into lying, deceiving or making stuff up to make it seem like more than it really is.
That’s my take anyway. And thanks for commenting!
JP Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I’ve frankly become bored with all the hype; so, I’ve learned to stop listening! I’ve gotten quite good now at “spotting” the FAKES. They usually start right into the pitch…you can tell right away what they’re about. We still have control of our time and $$$…..just stop giving/listening to the manipulative, money hungry, dishonest folks.
V. Levy
Good thoughts, lurrillo4 – my only caution to you is in hearing you say, “…and they’re so filthy rich they don’t need to sell anything to you…”
Just because someone’s well off (from real estate or whatever) doesn’t mean they shouldn’t charge for their knowledge, experience or expertise. I doubt Donald Trump, Richard Branson or Bill Gates would do so (or insert your high-level expert here).
It’s just capitalism, baby! And I loves it!
But that doesn’t take away from the message that people should put their very best out there, stand behind what they say and do, and pursue integrity above all.
Thanks for commenting!
Well put, Villevy. Gotta put blinders on to an extent, and only listen to the voices that get through your “screen”. Well done.
I personally have been burned by three so called top level gurus, who’s names I refuse to mention, I was forced to change, both my business and personal account two months ago, because, not only did I not get what I paid for but was doubled dipped by this guy.. AMEN,AMEN,AMEN,AMEN!
JP, I’m not sure how to react to this open letter. I think it took courage on your part to say what you did; however, I don’t believe it will change those ‘gurus’ out there you were addressing. Over the years, I have invested 6 figures into my education and notice I keep thinking there’s just one more thing to learn. You know, there’s not, so I’ve opted out of every email list but 4, and yours is one I’ve not opted out of. I only wish that this has the impact it should have.
JP,
I agree with your video there is to many so-called gurus out here that is trying to make a profit on a lot of people that believe in their product. Lets face it, people only invest into these individuals that they can trust and their is a lot of these gurus out here that cant deliver and the average stay at home mom just want to make an extra 500-1000 bucks a month for summer vacation or what ever. All I got to say is well put
Keep it up Bro,
Jason Smith
I don’t get it. All the comments are of people say i know this guru did this and this guru did that. but no names. it is the same as mind my own bussines. so why write the article when you don’t tell who they are. new investors are going too get victimized by gurus and there will be no stop from them. To me i would say no names no article.i believe in facts. no name no facts no nothing.
you have been burned and don’t want too tell names?
JP
Thank you for telling it like it is,your video is right on the money.
Hi, Ibuyhome. Well my goal was not to negatively bash anyone, but to challenge a group of them who are doing business in a disrespectful way.
Also, if you say one guru is bad and another person says he/she is good, who’s to say who’s right? It’s all based on your own experience with them anyway. There are people who’ll sing the praises of or demonize any given expert in any niche, from Trump to Tony Robbins to Jesus.
So rather than start a catfight about how’s right and who’s wrong, and rather than go as negative as possible (calling names would certainly do that) I’m putting this out there with as positive an energy as I possibly can.
You asked why…so that’s my reason 🙂
Thanks for commenting…
…jp
JP, when do you run for president?
You just said what hundreds if not thousands of investors wanted to say, but just didn’t have the voice or platform; you just won my respect.
If the guru’s responsible for the tactics you’ve mentioned, are honest with themselves they will stop their shameful marketing practices. If their pride is greater than their guilt, then you’ve gained some powerful enemies.
Anybody who would pay $997 for a product has more dollars than sense. If you also agree to pay a $97 membership, coaching or website access fee, you may be hopeless. Monthly fees are where the money is for the professed “guru”. A 4 year college education costs less than 6 figures – wake up and smell the coffee! True success comes to those who offer something of value to others and have the vision, tenacity and marketing expertise to sell it.
Ann Ezell
You poked me enough to respond. Thank you for the open letter. Very welcomed by the audience, but rarely understood by the target. Remember a skunk, still thinks they smell great.
One step of action is still one step better than sales gimmicks. Help the client/customer to take action, not just take money and use the excuse that most will never take action. If the client were on fire, at least piss, spit, or throw dirt on them, don’t just try to sell them a fire extinguisher.
Good guys & gals rule!
You are 100% right on, I must get 6 to 10 of these schmuck email ever day. infact I do not even go to the webinars any more as that is all they are but hype and how they love to spend ther money insted of helpping others.
Having been sold junky programs for more than a couple of times, including “mentoring” programs that cost into 5 figures which were basically nothing more than old useless business models, I take consolation in the fact that one can always make back the money, but those unethical “gurus” out there will never regain their integrity and respect from people like me, and I see that I am not alone here — thanks JP, for having the guts to speak on our behalf. These slick snake-oil salesmen should sign up themselves for “rehab” at the Josephson Institute: Character Counts!
Hi, Ann. I love your last sentence – well done. But I respectfully disagree with your first two sentences entirely.
The fact is I myself have spent thousands on my education – and I still buy stuff now. Some of it has left me feeling like it should have been better, while others have blown my expectations out of the water (in a good way). But I’m almost always able to extract more than my money’s worth one way or another.
Personally I have no problem paying a thousand bucks or more at times for good, proven, no-fluff education that’ll cut my learning curve or teach me something in a few hours it would otherwise have taken me months or years to learn. I also have multiple monthly memberships of one sort or another, ranging from as low as $37 to as much as $297 per month. And I use most (not all) of them often, and benefit from them greatly.
I urge folks not to get too carried away with the monthlies, as can tend to happen before you know it. And before you spend more than a hundred bucks on anything, do your homework. And before you spend a thousand or more, make sure it’s a niche you’re seriously interested in and pretty much going to pursue one way or another.
But on the other side of the coin, just because something costs a thousand bucks or has a monthly fee attached to it is no reason to discount it automatically. A college education costs a lot more than that, and won’t teach you what many of the well done REI courses out there will. That’s been my personal experience and conviction at least.
Thanks for commenting…
…jp
JP,
SInce I first became aware of you, I suspect about 3 years ago, evidence reveals that you have exercised a consistent path of integrity. I noted this long ago and you have done nothing to change my mind.
In a crowded space you stand as a beacon of ethics and integrity. No, you are not perfect; however, it is clearly apparent to anyone paying attention that you have intentionally placed yourself upon a path that aspiress toward that elusive goal.
As I can say of only a select few among the many to whom I have been exposed, your values, commitment and dedication in service to others is highly commendable. I have recognized and appreciated these qualities in you from the beginning. I will continue to do so well into the future. Through consistent exercise of values you have positioned yourself as a unique and valuable resource to the community of investors – having nurtured ‘the environment’ of relationships within which trust is virtually implicit.
While much more could be said, suffice to say that you have proven yourself uniquely qualified to express this open letter to the REI community. Hopefully it will attract the attentions of those who presume themselves worthy of the trust bestowed upon them – to serve as a baseline against which for evaluate the evidence of their intentions. To have simply stimulated questioning on this subject may surface, to everyone’s prospective benefit, evidence of arrogance and contempt by some and humility and respect by others.
For what it may be worth, JP, I’m proud of you. You have consistently stayed the course, remaining true to your values. You have chosen to advocate for integrity of the REI community, something for which we should all be thankful. Those who cannot appreciate the message you have shared, particularly those who feel threatened in its light, likely have probable cause to feel shame. At a minimum, it is likely that their practices render them truly unworthy of the privilege of our attention, much less of our confidence and trust.
Thank you for putting so succinctly what has long needed to be said.
JP
Right on. I cannot tell you how much I agree with everything you said. Thank you so much for saying what needs to be said. No BS should be the new RE slogan. I think you have the best and most honest information in all your communications. Thank you and keep up the good work.
Charles Lyon
I thought it was only me who felt that way, every week a halve dozen experts have the latest and greatest.
It is amazing, I would like to know where is all the money coming from to invest in all of these programs.
Brian
P.S. Thank you!
You’re right on the money, JP. You are one of the few guys out there in the real estate investing world that has your heart in the right place while offering a lot of valuable knowledge. Thanks for what you do!
Robert Opfer
I don’t know JP, I think you really hit the nail on the head with this one 🙂
Thank you. Its about time someone reply to this Real Estate Pirates.. you know who you are! These 3 & 4 day seminars/summit that turn out to be a sell-a-thon are not going to work in the future. Will the Real Estate GURUs please come forward.
JP I like your post but nothing new here… So called guru’s are nothing more than someone realizing there’s easier way to make money, selling information products… Start a real estate niche, make money from it, create a system, then sell it to the masses… The only problem here is to many leave holes in there system and don’t explain everything to the fullest… Thats the facts! Why? Because the truth is what they have doesn’t work everywhere for everybody… Then they play them into the self help program another income stream… The problem with all these systems and all these courses is the majority don’t over deliver… There “worthless” I mean “worth less” than what you pay… I could name some names that are literally a joke, but the sure giveaway is that these guru’s are not even doing deals… I for one feel very fortunate to have a coach finally that over delivers…
All I can say is I hope this isn’t just another ploy to get everybody on board before bringing out a product of your own… That techniques old.
Yes, the gurus push their stuff hard and some of it is Crap.
But……
I hope people with a an excellent product don’t expect it to find its way naturally to the candidate in need.
When a truly great product comes along it’s Got to be marketed just as hard (although in a more ethical fashion) as the Gurus.
If not, your product fails. In sales. And by not being shared with those in need.
Don’t forget, there are plenty of people with great things to say that never get heard.
Remember Kiyosaki, he wasn’t ashamed to tell us that he wasn’t a best-selling writer, but that he Was a best-selling author!
Great post JP!
Bingo to that JP. You really cut the center of the nerve on “Guru” mentoring and advertising. It is unfortunate that there are few “Gurus” that do not deserve that name and profession!!!! Thanks for the straight talk
Thanks JP, you pretty much covered the cake with the icing and it drives it home for all of us that are newbies and have been up-sold, cross-sold and re-packaged the following week. I also delete the emails w/o reading even the headlines.
I have to agree wholeheartedly! ‘Programs’ are offered, not only for Real Estate, but Internet Marketing in general, that are supposedly the answer to our dreams. Then, after you have purchased the ‘program’, which you have been led to believe is complete in itself, you are ‘offered’ further One Time Offers that are indispensible to doing the original ‘program’. So you can resist that or get sucked into more and more payments. There’s only one word for it, SCAM!
Jarey
There are numerous ‘payment processors’ on the web, but I will no longer buy anything, ebook or whatever, that doesn’t use ClickBank, who gives a valid, unquestioned 60 day guarantee on their sales.
Jarey
Hey J.P., Chelsea is a knockout; does she take after mom, ol’ buddy? You gotta be proud!
I understand this is a dramatic time in real estate investing with lots of new ideas and speakers. Yet, as somone who has worked with his real estate investments the past 40 years and learned from my father before that, I am alarmed at how many speakers are urging the fast turnover (Wholesaleing) type investing as though there is no risk in that behavior. Most of us can become comfortable to wealthy in realestate, but it is usually a get rich over some time process and yes credit scores, downpayments and reserves available, etc do matter. I am always learning, but there is certainly some very intense scamming going on at times. ColoradoGreg
Not only that; it sure beats being sued….. Smart move JP….
I think JP is doing us all a favor here. Especially those of us that are relatively new. It’s like a warning shot pointed safely away from everyone, letting us know what’s going on. But at the same time, it will reveal to the “gurus” how we’re all reacting to being inundated with shabby marketing and some sub-par products. It won’t change all of them, but some may lighten up…. after all, it affects their credibility with all of us…..
I name names! I am sick of the abuse that some have done to others!
I am impressed. This was very tasteful and right on target. There was no “hatefulness”, just very tactful and well written. I am done with Guru’s. They are not experts at Real Estate investing. They are extremely good marketers. I look at Guru’s from a totally different angle. I am a Licensed Real Estate Professional. I am also an investor. I can do both. I can wear both hats. In your video, you mentioned…experts in the industry. What makes an expert? As Realtors, we are in the field all day, everyday. We see it all. Our problem is that we are our own worst enemy. As it is in Guru world. We have MLS data compilation to prove our statistics and the work that we have done. Guru’s have wicked super good software programs. They can make $35K from their laptop at the beach from flipping one house that they have never even seen. I think the video was a little too reserved and a little too polite. Duncan Weirman is my favorite “whistle blower”. He will actually call people out by their name. Karen Hanover? Commercial short sale Guru? I dont think so. What about protecting the public? As a licensed professional I have to go in behind the inexperienced wanna be and clean up their mess. Its annoying. No rules, No laws, just make that money and who cares who you screw over. My favorite one is ….steal from the banks!!! Reallly? You want to be a bank robber and that is admirable? Thats part of the problem not the solution. Yes, I loved the content of the video. My favorite parts include…what fruit truck do you think we just fell off of? And…emailing me is a privledge not a right. AND not endorsing products that you dont even know about. And the limited supply…its all digital, so funny. What about the server crashing? SO many folks ordered it, that the server crashed. oh please. Im right here in TampaBay, right in the heart of GURU city. I know who is doing deals and who is not. The ones that are not, are selling their junk. And its junk. I have been approached about selling my “system”. Hell No, I love my system and its not for sale. To be used and abused, no thanks. Its MY system, it works for me and Im not going to whore it out. I actually help people. I rehab houses, improve neighborhoods, put folks to work, stimulate the economy, make good housing affordable, all in legal arena. I make a good income and work hard. AND I dont buy into the GURU game. Thanks again for a great vid. I dont think it will fend them off and as long as people buy it, they are still going to sell it.
Sincerely, Cally Doyle, Signature Realty Associates, Inc.
Nicely said, JP. Fortunately I don’t suffer from the new shiny object syndrome when it comes to real estate investing education anymore, but I remember those days from a couple years ago! You really do have to filter folks and simply unsubscribe when something doesn’t jive with you.
Hey JP,
Wow is that ever RIGHT ON TARGET!
Lets face it……. we now live in a “Trust Economy” now that things have tightened up and everyone, and I mean everyone, is looking around and thinking to themselves “who can I really trust to do business with in this economy?”.
Who is gonna be there after the sale?
Who is gonna be there when things don’t go smooth, and there is a problem?
Who is gonna tell me “the truth” not just what I want to hear?
Those are the questions that Kristi and I consistently answer for our buyers, sellers, and private money investors in our Real Estate Investing Biz and it is WORKING…. even in this crappy Real Estate market!
It is easy?
HELL NO!
It takes hard work, dedication, and most importantly it requires REAL WORLD business systems and procedures that ACTUALLY WORK in this market!
Mixed in with a HEALTHY portion of Honesty and Integrity!
Sounds like you are working on that with your REIology and Kristi and I are excited to see it when you launch it!
KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!
Rob & Kristi Russell
KR Enterprises
Thanks, I completely agree! But then again I’m pretty biased. 😉 And yes, she DEFINITELY takes after her mother!
I see where you’re coming from, Jarey. But keep in mind that anyone selling information on the internet is legally required to give you a minimum 30 day return policy. Not only that, but you if you’re denied a legitimate refund, you can always call and do a chargeback on your credit card. Visa/MC/Amex will put the burden of proof on THE SELLER. Just don’t abuse that…as someone who has a merchant account, it’s a real hassle to deal with chargebacks from time to time when folks just forgot what they purchased, and assuming it must be bogus they just do a chargeback right off the bat…not cool. Anyway, some thoughts for consideration…
Well there’s a right way and a wrong way to do it in my opinion. Upsells I got no problem with. We all get asked “Would you like fries with that” and have no problem with it. If the additional thing you’re offering is related to and may in some way enhance what you initially offered me, then go for it. Like burger and fries. But if you’re now saying I can’t really enjoy my burger unless I also now buy the meat patty that goes in the middle…well, that’s obviously a little different story…and pretty darn scammy. That’s why I say, it’s all in how you do it.
Well said, Brooks! Here, here! That’s a big part of what I’m saying…I’M PRO MARKETING. If the products/services deserve it, market the HECK out of it…you owe it to the folks who legitimately need it to make sure it makes their radar and they understand who it can benefit them. It just needs to be done (as you said) in a much more ethical fashion.
Well Steve I assume you know already I”m working on a new “REIology” project – I mentioned it at the beginning of the video in fact. But that’s not what this is about at all. This little open letter is something I started a couple of years ago, and one afternoon last week (after Travis’ email I mentioned in the video) I decided it was time I may as well git-r-done. So I spent a couple hours in the afternoon putting it out here. It’s f100% from my heart.
Thanks for commenting!
Spot on! JP, you told it like it is! Also, here’s another great piece on the same subject written by one of the few “gurus” that still deliver:
http://www.regoddess.com/GuruManifesto/www/download/GuruManifesto_2009.pdf
Lawsuits. Get it?
Bingo! We mutter the same things out here, JP. After spending $10k+ over a period of a few years I have come to realize that much of it is the same old stuff&fluff in a different wrapper. I have never heard so much worthless rhetoric in my life like I’ve heard on real estate webinars. After a while, you know what they are going to say, how they are going to say it and what is coming at the end. Tampa Stef said it best in three words, “bla, bla, bla.”
I “will not” purchase any more courses. I know enough to write my own darn course but I have not as yet “cracked the nut” myself. I feel like a squirrel gnawing on a titanium walnut for 4 years turning it over and over, around and around searching hacking, biting, scratching … aching for success – as the cold air of winter’s winds are biting at the back of my neck. When you have no income, you’ve spent your savings on countless courses from shameless “gurus” and “done for you” ends up being “done for them, by you ” and you are no closer to success than you were six months out of the shoot, and when you hear Chapter 13 knocking on your door, well, you tend to feel duped, like just another sucker and then, a failure.
“Cracked the Code,” “Done For You,” “Secrets Revealed,” “MEGA successful GURU decides to “share his secrets with a select few,” pictures of girls and cars and doing it all from the beach in 2 hours a week… what bologna! Buzz words like these are the red flags every new investor should recognize as poison. All I have is a humble dog, a tiny dwelling and mega bills. Theirs is the shameless scumbag approach to ripping off serious investors looking for an affordable education and an honest way to opening this nut.
JP well said.
JP – you have hit the nail on the head. Ultimately, the responsibility is mine. It is sort which came first, the chicken or the egg. Do I get training and go out and get my ass kicked ( and bank account drained) as a result of lack of knowledge. or do I listen to a spin doctor and buy the oppurtunity to learn what he/she has learned? I am not sure what the answer is. Thanks for speaking out.
I truly believe the answer is:
1) Get training! Learn from those who’ve walked the road ahead of you! Invest in your education now rather than later, and don’t buy the lie that you should be entitled to it all for free.
…BUT ALSO…
2) Be cautious about how/who you spend the bigger bucks with. Practice due diligence, watch emotional buying, watch bright-shiny-object-syndrome…and do your very best to wait until you’ve actually CHOSEN a given niche before you spend thousands on it. Find your niche for tens or hundreds of dollars…then be willing to invest thousands refining it once you’ve chosen it. Doing so wisely will be an extremely profitable investment of time and money.
…jp
I must appaude you for what [I believe ] is truly pure honesty. I have been listening to ALL the so called [and i;m sure some follow the same principles you describe here in your video ] GURO’S, I have come to believe that many are out to promote there own or someone else’s product, For myself i think i can identify only a handfuf ot people to trust, & i hope my list mirrow’s yours. Thank you for the video—Al.
JP
Amen Brother, let your yes be yes and your no be no. Hopefuly this will be the beginning of the end for the carnavel like quality of the Guru circuit in REI. Our information age is very fast and one needs to be very mindful of the content and quality of any offering. It may be the information age but it is also the BAD information age. Everyone please educate yourself before buying education. JP keep up the good work. RB
Hi JP,
With high expectations, I attended Shaun’s most recent live 4-day event in St. Louis. Apparently others also were expecting a lot because I met many people who came in from various other parts of the country.
Not only was the program an amazing experience, but it could easily be a life-changer for anyone interested in learning how to earn a significant amount of money from short sale investing. Shaun’s real-world teaching, based on his own successful short-sale business experiences, would prove especially valuable to anyone frustrated with some of the incomplete, outdated or sugar-coated info that is circulating today.
I am not affiliated with Shaun, and if you care to share my email address with your readers who are experiencing “guru frustration”, I will be happy to respond to the first fifty people who have any questions about my experience at the event.
Best Regards,
Jack Harris
[email protected]
Hey Jp,
Loved the video… and 100% agree w/ you.
I’m glad you took the time to put this togther… and with your permission I’m going to spread it to the REI training community so as a whole… people can re-remember to do the right thing and focus #1 on the customer and their success and the value you deliver them… and #2 on the money.
In the end, when you focus on #1, the money comes… focus on #2, the money comes in the short term… but it doesn’t take long for people to see through the bunk.
Anyhow, ya… I think there is a lot of fear in this market right now because there are so many programs and customer service that don’t deliver the value and don’t back up their products with a “customer centric” mindset.
Like you mentioned in a comment above… there is nothing wrong with upsells, monthly subscriptions, or expensive programs. Like you… I’m a constant student and am always learning… and pay probably $600/mo in monthly subscriptions for services and training that are of great value and help me grow my business because I’m able to apply those programs.
Also, I’ve spent as much as $10,000 for coaching and it was worth every penny because I was in a position to apply the information and guidance from the coach to get past my current barriers in my business.
So, I can 100% understand how many people are tired as heck at “expensive products, upsells, and subscriptions”… but like you said in your comment… its NOT the business model of offering an upsell… or offering a monthly subscription to something… or charging higher fees that is wrong or a “scam”.
Its not the use of those types of offers… its whether or not the value is there behind those programs so the program is worth 10x more than the price (if you apply what is in the program) AND (a hugely important part)… whether or not there is excellent customer support that backs up the program and the company offering the program.
Customer support shouldn’t be simply an “expense” for a guru to try to minimize at all costs… customer support should enhance the overall customer experience and should be just as important (if not more) to companies (any company, not just REI educators) as the marketing.
So, as long as the value is there and over delivers based on the price… and the company stands behind its guarantees and offers quick and courteous service (including when a customer requests a refund)… that is 90% of the battle right there.
One last quick note… Jp is correct in that the majority of the REI educator industry is filled with people who have the customer in mind and provide good value for the investment. Yes, I think that there is a lot of room for growth in the customer support area… and thats something everyone can work on… but overall this industry has great people in it who are doing the right thing. But, there is a LOT of people who still for some reason think its easier to cut corners and not put the customer first… which I think in the end those people will get weeded out of the industry because over the long term authenticity will win out over email volume and the number of pitches someone sends to their subscribers.
Alrighty, ha… one last little note. Recently I’ve been seeing a lot of people throw the word “scam” around to describe anything that as one comment on this thread put it “has a monthly subscription, is over $1,000, or has upsells” (a paraphrase)… and Jp, you did a great job explaining the fault of that argument.
Nothing against people who throw the word “scam” around… its something that is so engrained in people right now that its become common place in the news and online to describe the tons and tons of true scams like Bernie Madoff, Enron, the Nigerian email scammers, etc.
And, online… there are scams out there like the Acai Berry and weight loss pills that are marketed to produce “overnight” results.
The simple advertisement of a quick result isn’t a scam by itself… a scam is when someone markets one thing… delivers another… and won’t stand up to their guarantees in a timely manner to refund your money if you’re unhappy with the product.
I’ve purchased training programs before being really excited about what I’d learn… then I dove in finding out it was stuff I already knew (yes, their marketing was extremely exaggerated)… and I asked for a refund because the product wasn’t right for me… and I got a refund.
Is that a scam because the marketing was aggressive? I don’t believe so. If they would have not responded to me quickly and refunded my money… yes, I’d say it would be a scam then.
So, one thing that I think will help people (this has helped me for sure when I evaluate training to invest in) when you look at training or programs is to evaluate a few elements before you invest:
1) Is the person I heard about this someone I truly trust?
2) Are there a bunch of negative comments about their customer service?
3) Do they have a good solid guarantee that will give you time to evaluate whether the program
fits your needs?
4) Is this training something that you need RIGHT NOW to help you get to only the very
next step in reaching your goals? If its not something you can truly apply right now… don’t
buy it.
5) During your purchase before you click “order”… is there contact information for the
company you’re buying from so you can contact them by email/phone/mail if you want to?
If you go through those steps before you invest… you should be pretty well protected. The biggie is the customer service. If a product doesn’t deliver… will you be able to get a quick and swift response to help you get a refund if you find out the training isn’t right for you?
A good way to gauge this is to email the company BEFORE you buy the program… see if they respond within 48 hours or not. If not, they likely won’t respond quickly if you’re already a customer and are asking for a refund.
Alrighty, my hands are tired 🙂
Jp, great video… and I applaud you for doing it. I’m going to do my part to help push this out there and see if we can’t get more people in this industry to follow those basic ethics that we all should expect to see when we invest in a program.
And, on the other side of it… there are a LOT of great teachers out there who have great programs and back up their programs with solid service and guarantees… guys like Shaun, Steve Cook, Susan L.L., Patrick Riddle, Rob Swanson, Jp, and others… who you can actually get a hold of… who will stand behind their guarantees (even if you feel their product didn’t fit your needs)… and who put the customer first.
Look for the positives… find the people you trust… and more than anything… don’t get caught up in the “scam” mindset because that is truly poison for success.
Grat job Jp!
– Trevor
Thank you, Jack. Yes, Shaun is DEFINITELY one of the good guys. 🙂 And I’m not surprised at all that you had such a positive experience. It’s par for the course for Shaun’s events.
Thanks so much for commenting!
It’s an unfortunate set of circumstances how this all plays out… My biggest competition in getting our live weekly rei trainings and free websites out to investors is that there is simply so much static! We’re coming up on a full year of training (we’re not amateurs) and just like the housing market experiencing all these gov’t interventions that put off the inevitability of the flood of inventory it is these very launches and techniques that deafen the ears of those we seek to benefit.But it all stems from a fairly simple progress that grinds away at the odds of guru’s converting over. There are 2 worlds of inertia… 1 for the guru… “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” 1 for the investor… “$997 is so much more affordable…” “If Ross Hair says it’s good it’s good…” etc. etc.I can tell from the UI of your blog that you’re no stranger to the nuances of internet marketing, and like myself love REI! But in this industry that we both love so dear, it’s only going to get worse… and that’s why we’ve been on a crusade for the past year with these open live trainings.Here’s why I think it’s going to get worse:On the surface we have guru’s in internet marketing and in real estate investing, both big money industries, which in turn draw sharks. Guru’s work by operation and have systems in place to promote their guru-nuance and in building these operations they came to a chilling conclusion…All the BS about top 10 Headlines for conversion, Scarcity, 4-12 contacts, long copy, landing pages, opt-ins, pushbutton techniques work!I absolutely abhor this reality and consistently refer to Zig Ziglar’s observation that “Emotion will always outperform logic.” Once a guru realizes this, it’s only a necessary evil to a desirable end, but for who is the trick question.So we’re looking at: Big money -> Emotion Sells -> …StaticWhen there’s money to be made and emotion outperforms logic anyone can come walking in the door… ie an internet marketer looking for a new niche to create a product for. As you’ve observed, many investors are taking the route of becoming an internet marketing guru. Whether they succeed or fail to any degree it wouldn’t be unreasonable for one to assume that they’ll boomerang back into real estate investing (as the market ripens and shadow inventory falls out).Remember what a scum bag idea equity stripping was? Back when there wasn’t an open invitation to be a REI guru through the use of the internet no guru in their right mind would ever promote such a strategy. But now you can literally set up a guru operation in a weekend and I can prove it.Combine these two and now our market is exposed to poison and in the case of new investors they’ll be doomed by their ignorance and the emotional strategy of the ‘guru/marketer.’ Is there hope? Yes and No… it really boils down to how much our community can back logic over emotion.My #1 recommendation is that when you come across something valuable you keep an eye on it as if it were a fish bowl that would magically materialize $100 bills.#2 is to share and promote that material because it will spoil other investors to actually have resources that are worth a damn.#3 be critical of garbage and obvious spam… usually I’ll extended extra benefit of the doubt, but when I see something shallow (like REIEducator, which is simply a marketing shill for the gurus your video was aimed at… but even worse an amateur attempt of a marketer going after a niche).#4 follow RSS feeds, block 3rd party posters.Some people may hate me for #4 because it wrecks their auto-responder plans and their broadcasting methods, but that is exactly what so many are immediately tired of. A week ago my facebook wall was a bloody mess of ads and scheduled updates which didn’t inspire me a whole lot.Then it dawned on me that ‘Hey, there seems to be a correlation between quality posts and things that were just arbitrary updates.’ I didn’t necessarily want to miss certain blogs, but unfortunately I didn’t want the same update that would cross my twitter, linkedin, and facebook account.Because these guru’s have picked up hootsuite or pingfm the redundancy just got too out of control for me. So I clicked on the x where there post on my stream stood and I was given a great a option (Hide HootSuite)…or ping.fm…or twitter.By doing this a couple time I had a much cleaner feed that actually felt social for a change, rather than a bunch of broadcasts with a touch of social spice.Instead of having these maniacs broadcasting to me in 5 different ways (unsubscribed to every junk REI email in the past 30 days) I created an RSS feed to follow the handful of guru updates that I still like (after SIMS I lost 4 heros) and future ones that impress me.These ideas have made a grand difference in my time online as I feel a bit invulnerable to REI nuisances. Except for the fact that the biggest one of all, the tragic accuracy of Zig’s observation: “Emotion will always outperform logic,” which demands an embarrassing %age of my time and effort in order get investors to recognize the quality that is right in front of them.***Becoming an internet marketing guru… I would forget about and here’s why!Just keeping up with internet marketing tech is a full time job where every Monday is a different environment. I’ve been in IM for over a decade and can honestly say that you’re time is better spent just investing in real estate and earning 10x’s what you would get being an IM guru given the extra amount of time you have to invest in your guru-ly duties. The ROI is not in your favor if you haven’t been immersed in IM for years prior with success.If you’re successful in IM then you know how to go after the real money and teaching those techniques only grows your competition. Unless you’re a real technophiliac and happily live, breathe, and sleep anything IM related you are setting yourself up to be a fool.***Glimpse of the dark side… (black hatters are like the equity strippers of the IM world)I had to laugh at the force click mention in the video because that is really just the tip of the iceberg because I know what black hats are capable of doing and I’ve personally negotiated with some to leave the REI community alone. (I’ve been pretty lucky so far, but all it will take is a couple newbie black hats with something to prove to come out of left field to incite competition, thus possibly making REI the next mesothelioma.Here’s what black hats can do…Create 1000’s of fake profiles, spin 1000’s of articles, generate 1000’s of websites/landing pages/optin forms. They’ll JV with the likes of those who chose to JV with REIEducator giving them a lock on content, lists, and visibility i.e. the booming voices in a loud room. This edge will marginalize new talent, fresh ideas, and the voices of those alternatives who actually have something to offer…In the standalone cartel of REI guru’s they’ll end up competing against each other and given their black hat footprints, they won’t change back and have to resort to even blacker methods such as comment spamming, backlink assassination, more force click, cookie stuffing methods, copying/leaking/torrenting competitor materials…You see where I’m going with this. It can get really ugly and this is what weighs on my mind and why investors need to be advocates for making good resources viral and criticizing junk because black hats can’t exploit a quality rich community. But they can and will if our community doesn’t work to be an exception to Zig Ziglar’s “Emotion will always outperform Logic.”
I love the fact you say to stop with the “DONE FOR YOU” stuff. There is very little DFY stuff in real estate investing. I had a guru tell me that I HAD to make my product/service DFY or it wouldn’t sell – but the reality is, that’s not legally possible (I teach private/public money raising and no money down solutions for real estate.) thank you for making that part of your letter.
If you are speaking the “truth” then there is no reason to get sued. It’s that simple. I am with ibuy – name names. That’s a HUGE part of the problem – too many “niceties” around here ruin it for the rest of us when the bad ones ruin the reputation of the entire industry.
How did you know what I was thinking about???
Hey JP, Why don’t you put up a list of gurus that you trust and feel are good guys, not of the bad ones (wink, wink)?
Wow Trev, that was quite a comment! Great insight though and glad you shared it 🙂
Thinking about it…thinking…
Hello JP,
I’m a true believer of focusing first on the service you give and the money will follow. You’re doing a great!!
Sergio V.
JP – You said OUTLOUD what most of us have been feeling for a long time. Well done!
Wow. Jp, the response to this post tells me something. People can smell crap from a mile away. And all this uproar tells me that.
I hope that everyone sticks together and organically pushes products that may get lost in the shuffle.
This is what you’ve been doing from day one.
I can’t wait until you do a write-up on the Flip Vips (If you don’t want to do it, I’d be happy to do a write up for you given that I’m in Mobile with Lawrence Roberts and you awarded me a flip cam about a year ago — both of you cats are solid!!)
That’s a real product.
Real investors. Real knowledge. Real Affordable.
I’m with you, Jim. I know they gurus are in business. Selling their ‘ideas’ to other agents. I was at a Realtor.com event just once to see how many thousands of dollars agents spent for their systems and products. I know they are all glorified database programs because I was taken in too. Fortunately, I realized in a very short time & was able to get my money back.
I’ve thought about a seminar to alert agents NOT to spend their dollars with these gurus. We can all play the marketing game to agents.
Trevor – well put, my man. Long…but well done. 🙂 And just in case anyone else is wondering…Trevor’s one of the “good guys” too. 🙂
Very good video. It sounds exactly like what I was telling a freiend the other day! I am always looking for good ideas and advise, but you don’t know who to trust anymore. I get e-mails from at least 6 or 8 different people and they are most times all selling the same items. Thanks for saying what needed to be said!
Dave
New Castle Pa
Thank you, amazing video. I have enjoyed it most. Very informative and useful information.
If I get another email for REO riches I will scream. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!
Love your commentary, J.P. This is one of the reasons I subscribe to your website. Unfortunately, I think the ones that need to read it probably won’t because they are not on your site. I do agree with the things you said, as I have been a victim, more than once, of gurus that are only concerned with getting my money. Thanks again for your frankness. I respect your ethics and wish more real authorities in real estate shared your values. Take care.
I have just completed an E-book entitled The Truth About Getting Rich in the Foreclosure Business. I hope to educate the public to the Scams being offered as Real Estate Educational Resources. I think I will just give this book away, because I see it’s value is not for me, but the newbies who deserve better than what is being offered.
JP,
I have guru fatigue. I am tired of getting bombarded with get rich schemes that never quite work out as they were touted to be. Guru’s only mention the upside but none of the downsides of a technique.
Here is an example:
You can buy homes for no money down by taking over the property sub2 the existing mortgage but what they never mention is that you do need money to fix up the property, be able to carry it for awhile if it is vacant, repair damages the tenant/buyer does, etc.
I have a friend that had taken over 50 properties sub2 that were in the upper middle class range (180k-250k) from 2003-2007. In 2007 when the market went bad the tenant/buyers couldn’t pay their rent on their Rent to Own Home because they lost their jobs. When they walked away or refused to pay he was stuck making payments on empty houses. He eventually lost all 50 homes and was bankrupt.
Many gurus would say that it was OK because it didn’t impact the investors credit score. This is very very WRONG. Not only could the investor be charged with fraud but it could also result in some District Attorney that has political ambitions that wants to make an example out of the investor and charge him with Fraud, Racketeering, Loan Fraud, etc.
It doesn’t matter if the charges stick because if you have to pay some attorney 50k to defend yourself AND you are humiliated when your name is ran in the paper talking about the investment scheme that you used to steal homes from owners and try to rip off the banks at taxpayer expense.
It is things like this that give investors a bad name and eventually push law makers into making laws that are against the investors.
Some of the gurus have had legal fights with authorities over questionable material that they taught and have even been charged buy the FTC with deceptive trade practices.
This message is @
Nate Andree, @ Steve Cavanaugh, @ Ken Holmes, @ Stephani Davis, @ Mike and Christina Ferris, @ Craig Fuhr, @ Shaun McCloskey, @ Brian Meidam, @ Russ Lebrasc, @ JP Moses, @ Dr. Lawrence E. Roberts, III and @ Peter Gauthier … I came across the Asktheflipvips.com website on accident.
I have had it up to here with gurus, gurus and more gurus. I am all guru’d out (it thats even a word). I like what the flipvips have to say so far and am honestly about 90% sure about to join. I actually joined a guru’s, well actually 2 gurus programs. I didn’t get any help, any calls, any deals, and personal contact nothing. A big fat NOTHING! But when it came time to start paying that $1,000.00 per mos, the phone kept ringing off the hook. I got emails, calls saying that my payment was due. One gurus salesperson told me over the telephone that for $10,000.00 I would get some cd’s, a monthly email subscription and pay $200.00 per mos and I would be a millionaire. I told him he had to do better than that? He informed me that I called HIM, he didn’t call me. I corrected him and said I call SAID GURU, not you. I would like to speak with said guru? No chance of that. I simply want to become an investor, starting at the bottom with wholesaling, going to foreclosures and short sales. I am realistic, if I could make between 75-100k I would be very happy. I don’t even listen to the webinars anymore, I will say that Neuveu Riche wanted like 30k for their program with NO guarantee that you would even get one deal made! Keep up the good work, and this video was like a real “Jerry Maguire” moment. I honestly look forward to networking with the flipvips. Brian and Shaun live in my area, by the way I am just outside Chicago IL. So St Louis and Milwaukee are no too far from me. Well again kudos for your video!!!!
Awesome, thanks for the great feedback!
I hear you on being “guru’d out”! I totally know what you mean…and it’s not really the true gurus (in the truest sense of the word)…it’s those who apparently only want you to keep buying more and more stuff, without ever really doing anything. Investing in your education is a no brainer…but endlessly buying stuff is merely bright shiny object syndrome…and that’s exactly where so many of them want you/us to remain.
Anyway, great comment…thanks…and maybe we’ll hear you on a Flip VIPs call soon! I’ve got mine coming up in about 50 minutes from the time I’m typing this! 🙂
…jp
hcarter3 – Come network with us! The feedback we have received from participants on our calls has been awesome. We’re all active investors actually doing it! If you’re ever in the Milwaukee area, let me know!
Brian Meidam
>”microwave millions”
I love it.
>”We are real living breathing people just like you”
Isn’t that giving them more credit than they deserve?
Done for you is a total myth. If it was truly that easy big companies with money would crush small investors in this business. It is exactly because you can’t totally automate the business, that it is complex with a lot of moving parts, that allows the small investor to be very successful.
Whats the general consensus on Than Merrill?
Enjoyed the post JP. Finding the right people to learn from is half the battle I think. The more I learn, the more I realize how much more there is to learn. And the more influential become, the more I feel the weight of responsibility to share with people who trust me only what I know, or what is known by those I trust that I’m personally interested in learning as well. My email list of 25,000 investors know darn well I’m not a ‘guru’, just another student with the passion to share the results of my own successes, experiments, and failures.
Hey JP, it that the same tiny little baby I met at lunch some years ago? Holy Cow. I notice a lot of “launch” comments. You may not know this but Vena has the ULTIMATE launch in all of human history. http://tinyurl.com/buuqvwg You will laugh out loud, I promise. Be well. -Drew
Hey, Drew! Long time, no talk, my man. Actually the little girl in this video is our second spawn, Kelsey. You’re remembering our firstborn, Alyssa – who also has red hair, but actually just turned 10 freakin’ years old. I know, crazy, right?
That link to Vena’s “launch” is awesome…can I put a snappy bonus package together for it? 🙂
…jp
10 years! Good heavens, makes me feel old.
We’d love to have you put a bonus package together but only if you can TAKE MASSIVE ACTION right away! And you’ve got to CRUSH IT! 😀
-Drew
Wow,man! Spot on! Number one pet peeve? Those videos that are supposed to be teaching me something or sharing some “secret” but when, actually, they’re just sales tools to bate me into buying yet, another product or service that I may or may not even need. And to add insult to injury, they make the videos so that I can’t skip through wall the needless chatter in order to get to the “real stuff.”